Mochabot log - CommonJS IRC channel: #commonjs on irc.freenode.net

2010-03-13:

[0:41] <Dantman> ashb, Do you have a wiki account?
[0:50] <Dantman> Do we want to change commonjs.org so it can be easily edited and updated?
[0:53] <Wes-> Dantman: yes
[0:53] <Wes-> Dantman: it's nearly useless ATM
[1:13] * Dantman wishes dns had evolved better ability to alias domain names.
[1:41] <Dantman> Wes--, we haven't cleared up license of the wiki yet, have we?
[1:44] <Dantman> ugh, the e-mails are BLOBs in the database... phpmyadmin makes viewing them a pain
[1:49] <Dantman> Heh, multibyte characters screw up mysql outputs.
[2:08] <Dantman> Anyone want to help me sort through a list of users with low contribs and make sure none of them actually made relevant contributions?
[2:11] <Dantman> Bleh, my edit_counts are screwed up... Kdangoor is listed as 1 but has a huge pile, likely imported ones.
[2:25] <Dantman> MisterN: You have two accounts on the wiki, want me to merge them?
[2:41] <Dantman> Ahah, I created a performance hit when I installed smw...
[2:41] <Dantman> I'll turn off the job que and run that by cron to fix it.
[3:02] <Dantman> lol, I had a good snicker at a thought about SXSW... I won't be going, but someone else is going... ^_^ Remember all the movies where someone brings a laptop to a meeting so that someone can use video chat with the rest of the participants?
[3:14] <Dantman> f*ck... Semantic Internal Objects is going berserk on the job queue, it's impossible to leave it enabled. But the implementation table doesn't work without it.
[3:30] <Dantman> Wes--, ashb: To clear up the licensing, should I direct mail all the contributors on the wiki asking for a confirmation of what to license the wiki under?
[3:36] <Dantman> ashb, I'm guessing things imported under "Ash" were yours, do you want me to merge those into your Ashb?
[5:03] <Dantman> Ugh, chromium is acting stupid and not letting me login... had to hack it with a document.cookie call.
[5:25] <Dantman> Ok, Chrome is now 100% f-ed up when it comes to forms, it's not submitting anything...
[5:26] <Dantman> Time to explore Opera
[5:34] <Dantman> Narwhal hasn't even implemented SM yet?
[6:12] <Dantman> Heh, ^_^ http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Website:Index/specs/modules/1.0 same content as http://commonjs.org/specs/modules/1.0.html but directly transcluded from the actual spec.
[8:00] <tlrobinson> Dantman: spidermonkey?
[8:01] <Dantman> Aye, it's not listed...
[8:01] <tlrobinson> it's got JSC and V8 (sort of)
[8:01] <tlrobinson> which are faster
[8:01] <Dantman> ^_^ ya, but with Rhino support you'd expect SpiderMonkey to be attempted as well.
[9:14] <Dantman> Oh my... Guess it's believe-able... but php parses ternaries in the opposite direction of js, a counter-intuitive one.
[9:15] <Dantman> Heh, tlrobinson http://commonjs.monkeyscript.org/ ^_^ What do you think?
[9:16] <tlrobinson> some of that code looks familiar :)
[9:17] <Dantman> A complete replica of commonjs.org.... ^_^ Except the entire content is controlled by the wiki.
[9:17] <tlrobinson> ah
[9:17] <tlrobinson> neat
[9:18] <Dantman> ;) http://commonjs.monkeyscript.org/specs/modules/1.0/ actually gets it's spec content directly from the actual Modules/1.0 page, there is NO copying involved...
[9:18] <Dantman> ^_^ And the 404 pages look nicer
[9:19] <tlrobinson> very cool
[9:19] <tlrobinson> is it written in javascript :)
[9:19] <Dantman> http://commonjs.org/badpage/ vs. http://commonjs.monkeyscript.org/badpage/
[9:19] <Dantman> ;) that's also controlled by the wiki
[9:19] <Dantman> Nah, unfortunately php... it's the simplest thing to deploy.
[9:20] <kal> Dantman: that's really neat! :P
[9:20] <Dantman> ^_^ Unfortunately it's the same crappy site template though, heh...
[9:21] <Dantman> Now to get some caching in place.
[9:24] <Dantman> ;) Content pages have talkpages now too in a way, *snicker*
[9:24] <Dantman> ^_^ And look at what it takes to add a new redirect! http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Website:Redirects
[9:25] <tlrobinson> is that built into mediawiki?
[9:25] <Dantman> No
[9:25] <Dantman> Into the php script
[9:25] <tlrobinson> it should be
[9:25] <tlrobinson> thats cool
[9:25] <tlrobinson> though i'm not sure i'd want users editing it :)
[9:26] <Dantman> That's what the extra permissions are for. You need a special flag to edit the Website: namespace.
[9:26] <tlrobinson> ah
[9:26] <ashb> Dantman: ash -> ashb sure
[9:28] <Dantman> Done, I don't know if it updated your editcount though.
[9:29] <ashb> dont much care :)
[9:29] <Dantman> Well, some other users have bad edit counts, maybe I'll find a way to fix them in the future.
[9:57] <Dantman> There we go, I'll poke Kevin now.
[9:58] <Dantman> Cached the stuff that does a http call for an hour. You can purge them using CTRL+SHIFT+R in Firefox and it'll delete the cache keys used on the page. So if you don't want to wait an hour for something from the wiki to update you can just go to the page and force it to refresh.
[10:01] <Dantman> I wonder how well flagged revs would play... It could be possible to make commonjs.org use a draft.
[10:16] <Dantman> Ok, poked Dangoor...
[10:16] <Dantman> ^_^ Maybe we can have a decent site sitting at the base domain for our group name sometime...
[10:18] <Wes-> Dantman: or at least links that work on the main page
[10:18] <Dantman> heh
[10:18] <Dantman> I dropped those for now.
[10:19] <Dantman> http://commonjs.monkeyscript.org/
[10:28] <Dantman> I wonder if Greg would be willing to do a mockup for commonjs.org...
[10:29] <ashb> Dantman: wait until the logo is decided
[10:31] <ondras> v8cgi is probably going to be renamed+rebranded too
[10:31] <ondras> .)
[10:39] <ashb> probably good - the 'cgi' suffix is probably cuasing moy trouble than 'eugh flusspferd - i can't pronounce it' is :(
[10:41] <Dantman> mhmm
[10:43] <Dantman> The design would be based around whatever logo is picked.
[10:44] <Dantman> I told him about the logo discussion anyways, I'd just tell him when he responds.
[10:44] <ashb> k
[10:44] <ashb> just so long as he knows
[10:45] <Dantman> Meh, he's a professional designer, knows usability, and branding... I'm not sure anyways if he would like to mock something up anyways...
[10:46] <Dantman> And he's at SXSW next week anyways.
[11:19] <Wes-> Dantman: dropped what? every single impl links to a blank page
[11:19] <Wes-> Dantman: would be better just linking to the project pages!
[11:19] <Wes-> Dantman: Oh, on the mock up
[11:19] * Wes- shrugs
[11:19] <Wes-> don't know why you wouldn't just fix 'em :)
[11:39] <Dantman> http://commonjs.monkeyscript.org/ commonjs.org doesn't have the new site.
[11:39] <Dantman> We don't have any implementation pages yet.
[11:39] <Dantman> We can add that once the new stuff on the wiki is ready.
[11:41] <Dantman> Which is waiting on a solution to a little trouble with an extension.
[11:45] <ashb> we should randomize the order of the impls ;)
[11:46] <dom> sort them alphabetically
[11:46] * Dantman thinks the autogenerated stuff is going alphabetically.
[11:46] <dom> and we'll renamed to !!00_flusspferd
[11:46] <dom> <_<
[11:47] <ashb> we are already first >_>
[11:48] <ashb> Dantman: so can anyone edit the website pages or not?
[11:48] <Dantman> dom, Your fault for picking a Flusspferd instead of an Ape..... Well, I suppose at least you're not as far back as Hippo.
[11:48] <Dantman> ashb, You'll need an extra flag.
[11:49] <ashb> cool.
[11:49] <Dantman> ^_^ But it's not sysop, so it's easier to give out.
[11:49] <ashb> so you can still participate in wiki-bikeshedding
[11:52] <Dantman> The layout of the site is still part of the code... but the css, redirects, images, and content are controlled by the wiki... Though the only protection I can put on images is sysop.
[11:53] <Dantman> Trying to add a new group level to permissions makes things really screwy...
[11:53] <Dantman> There is a configuration option for it, but it's been broken forever.
[11:57] <Dantman> ^_^ http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Special:BrowseData/Implementations
[12:27] <Dantman> Hmm, FlaggedRevs does look interesting.
[12:28] <Dantman> We could probably ditch the extra permission flag and instead not display stuff on the main site until reviewed.
[12:28] <ashb> who would do the reviewing?
[12:29] <Dantman> Most of whoever we would have given the flag to edit the website.
[12:30] <ashb> doesn't it need a new flag anyway to enable the reviewing?
[12:30] <ashb> (i.e. doesit gain anything?)
[12:30] <ashb> i guess anyone being able to make corrections and just certain people publish them
[12:31] <Dantman> Yes you still need the flag... but the difference is instead of only the people with the flag being able to edit the page, everyone can edit the page.
[12:31] <Dantman> It only takes a person with a flag to publish the changes to the website.
[12:32] <Dantman> ;) It's like taking patches to your svn hosted vcs, vs. letting people clone your git repo...
[12:34] <ashb> yeah
[12:46] <Dantman> I wonder when we should update...
[12:49] <Dantman> They finally got to a 1.16beta1
[12:51] <ashb> oh of WP?
[12:52] <Dantman> MW
[12:52] <ashb> thats what i meant
[13:24] <Dantman> ashb, Care to test spam http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Website:Index for me
[13:25] <ashb> sure
[13:26] <ashb> did you approve it?
[13:26] <ashb> cos it showed up straight away
[13:26] <Dantman> Aye, not using the stable=1 param yet.
[13:26] <Dantman> ^_^ That's why I needed a test bad edit.
[13:28] <Dantman> Stupid flagged revs, &stable=1 doesn't work for &action=render
[13:29] <Dantman> same for raw
[13:39] <Dantman> Hmmm, from the looks of it &action=render works in a later version of Flagged Revs...
[13:39] <Dantman> Though of course that one is for 1.16
[13:41] <Dantman> However it still breaks on &action=raw... hmmm
[13:56] <Dantman> ashb, ^_^ heh, feel happy you're not a vandal: http://wiki.commonjs.org/index.php?title=Website:Index&action=history
[13:56] <ashb> heh
[13:57] <ashb> tho the commit above does
[13:57] <Dantman> ;) I'll clear that comment to... buahahaha!
[14:09] <kriszyp> Has anyone actually implemented a JSGI module server that implements http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Modules/Transport/C ?
[14:11] <ashb> not yet
[14:11] <ashb> but i might do
[14:11] <ashb> whats pause resume for?
[14:11] <kriszyp> I was thinking about creating one...
[14:12] <kriszyp> pause and resume is so you can include two modules in one http response/script file that are circularly dependent without triggering a new request
[14:12] <ashb> kriszyp: as middleware ?
[14:12] <kriszyp> yeah
[14:12] <ashb> hmmmm that doesn't make sense to me
[14:12] <Dantman> ^_^ YAY! I have a workarround that doesn't need stable=1
[14:12] <ashb> i don't quite get why you need that
[14:12] <kriszyp> middleware or pause and resume?
[14:12] <ashb> p/r
[14:13] <ashb> i think i'm missing a key bit of context
[14:13] <kriszyp> if you had this, you probably trigger a request for b.js: require.def("a",["b"],function(b){}); require.def("b",["a"],function(a){});
[14:13] <kriszyp> even though it is included
[14:14] <ashb> oh right.
[14:14] <kriszyp> so you do: require.pause(); require.def("a",["b"],function(b){}); require.def("b",["a"],function(a){}); require.resume();
[14:14] <ashb> why not require.def({ a: ..., b: ... }
[14:14] <ashb> ?
[14:14] <kriszyp> hey, I didn't write the spec :)
[14:15] <ashb> if the only reason for pause resume is that, i'd think that an object would be clearer
[14:15] <ashb> it is to me anyway
[14:15] <ashb> but i haven't given much tought to any of this
[14:17] <ashb> kriszyp: tbf i had a completely different thought of how it would be used
[14:17] <ashb> something like ../foo/commmonjs,a,b,flibble,module
[14:17] <ashb> and it returns a JS file with all of those in
[14:18] <ashb> and a require fn
[14:18] <kriszyp> you mean a url with all those names in it?
[14:18] <ashb> yeah
[14:18] <ashb> that would be for modules 'a', 'b', 'flibble' and 'module' for instance
[14:18] <kriszyp> yeah, I want to do that too, but I want it to dep resolution on the server as well
[14:18] <ashb> yeah - is that what this transport/C is designed to do?
[14:19] <kriszyp> yeah, I think so
[14:19] <ashb> like i said - I (or the proposal) is missing a key bit of context
[14:19] <Dantman> ^_^ It works, I can allow people to edit the site and mark good edits as published.
[14:20] <ashb> kriszyp: yeah - can't quite work out why require.def has the [deps] array
[14:21] <ashb> cant fit it into my mental model of how i'd write this sort of thing
[14:22] <ashb> and why are "require" and "exports" in that [deps] array in the example
[14:22] * ashb is thuroughly confused
[14:23] <kriszyp> they are special deps, they are there so they can match up to the arguments so require and exports can be introduced to the module scope
[14:26] <ashb> kriszyp: i think that proposal is confusing two things
[14:27] <ashb> how to require modules in a browser, and also how to define the source for those modules
[14:28] <ashb> hmmm not quite i guss
[14:28] <ashb> cos you are quite unlikely to do require.def in the browser, no?
[14:29] <kriszyp> you mean with user code?
[14:29] <kriszyp> as opposed to the generated boilerplate?
[14:29] <ashb> yeah
[14:30] <kriszyp> probably
[14:30] <kriszyp> yeah, I don't think I would use require.def in user code
[14:32] <ashb> and since its generated code - why not just make it generate all in one go
[14:33] <ashb> to my mind i'm not sure that the deps should be in there. as extra 'free variables' fine, not so as 'deps'
[15:10] <MisterN> Dantman|Sleep: i have two accounts?
[15:11] <ashb> probably from when it got copied voer from the moz wiki?
[19:55] <Dantman|Sleep> MisterN, MrN and Aristid
[19:56] <MisterN> Dantman|Sleep: hmm.
[19:59] <MisterN> Dantman: i wonder which is the besser nick for the wiki.
[20:00] <Dantman> You have a userpage at MrN already iirc
[20:00] <Dantman> http://wiki.commonjs.org/wiki/Implementations/Flusspferd
[20:02] <MisterN> i want Aristid anyways, i have just decided.
[20:03] <MisterN> so merge the accounts please :)
[20:03] <MisterN> and move the user page
[20:09] <Dantman> Done.
[20:17] <MisterN> thanks
[21:00] <Dantman> ^_^ My version of commonjs.org now has the syntax highlighted styles.
[21:13] <Dantman> Anyone have universal edit button installed?
[21:17] <Dantman> ^_^ I set it up so that anyone with universal edit button installed can click on the button to be directed to the proper edit page on the wiki.
[21:21] <MisterN> i want firefox 3.6
[22:23] <Dantman> *sigh* Just as I thought, the OpenID extension for MW is still shit...

 

 

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