Mochabot log - CommonJS IRC channel: #commonjs on irc.freenode.net

2009-10-27:

[10:52] <afonso> ashb: it seems that the jscc problem is when calculating the lookahead, it doesn't take context into detail
[10:54] <afonso> so if you two terminal symbols with the similiar definitions ('[ab]+" B, "a+" A) and a grammar like root = A if you give him "aaa" input the parser will think that the lookahead is B and will stop parsing because the grammar only allows A
[10:55] <afonso> lunch, brb
[11:10] <ashb> afonso: ah.
[11:23] <ondras> ohmygod, someone experienced with MSVC?
[11:23] <ondras> especially the /EHsc flag?
[11:41] <afonso> ashb: well, forget about what I said actually, this is *context-free* *coff* xD
[11:41] * afonso bangs head
[11:42] <afonso> I should go and read the dragon book again
[11:42] <ashb> yeah i was thinking that
[11:42] <ashb> or i'm just going to port yapp to JS
[12:15] <MisterN> ashb: or better yet, write a parser module for flusspferd :)
[12:16] <ashb> i like writing things in pure JS :P
[12:16] <ashb> we both know i'm not a C++ guy
[12:17] <MisterN> i wonder if boost.xpressive would make for a good js module
[19:41] <ashb> deanlandolt_: http://www.juicejs.org/
[19:41] <ashb> and anyone else who cares
[19:44] <kriskowal> nice, thanks ashb
[19:46] <ashb> any problems let me know
[19:47] <kriskowal> aw, install failed
[19:48] * kriskowal grabs the log
[19:48] <ashb> >_<
[19:48] <ashb> platform?
[19:48] <hannesw__> ashb: looks nice!
[19:49] <ashb> kriskowal: 10.6 perhaps?
[19:49] <ashb> tho it was working
[19:49] <kriskowal> yes, i'm on os x.6.1
[19:50] <ashb> kriskowal: damn, i might have borken it again
[19:50] <kriskowal> i'll email you the relevant portion of install.log
[19:50] <ashb> thanks
[19:51] <ashb> kriskowal: expr $(/usr/bin/sw_vers -productVersion) : 10.6 > /dev/null
[19:51] <ashb> what does that exit withbtw?
[19:51] <ashb> and good - i did leave some debugging prints in there
[19:52] <kriskowal> 0. i'm on 10.6.1, srsly
[19:52] <ashb> yeah, i'm on 10.5.8 here, but i did have that script working last week
[19:52] <hannesw__> i have flusspferd 0.8 installed and cloned the juice git. How do I get started?
[19:53] <hannesw__> I'm on Ubuntu
[19:53] <ashb> hannesw__: its actually suprisingly hard still - thats why i built the bundles
[19:53] <ashb> hannesw__: actually if you've got it installed, it shouldn't be too hard
[19:53] <hannesw__> ok :)
[19:53] <ashb> so in the juice checkout
[19:53] <ashb> flusspferd install.js
[19:54] <ashb> oh - building Zest is a bit of a pain
[19:54] <hannesw__> I tried that, but it complains about missing bin directory
[19:54] <ashb> ah yeah
[19:54] <ashb> mkdir bin
[19:54] <ashb> >_>
[19:54] <hannesw__> or missing bin/juice actually
[19:54] <ashb> forgot that git doesn't track empty dirs
[19:55] <ashb> one sec
[19:56] <hannesw__> TypeError: d_fh.writeBinary is not a function' at /home/hannes/git/juice/lib/juice/installer.js:154
[19:56] <ashb> yeah, that was a mistaken push
[19:56] <ashb> fixing those
[19:57] <kriskowal> ashb: i also reverted modules/1.1 to last-ratified-revision on the wiki. i think the next step on that front is for someone to synthesize a new proposal that either integrates the feedback so far or make non-subjective counter arguments for everything else
[19:57] <ashb> kriskowal: i didn't realise it was such an issue
[19:57] <kriskowal> i didn't either.
[19:57] <ashb> i just went 'well this is what everyone is dooing, i'll change it to that'
[19:57] <kriskowal> and i'm not terribly interested. i'd rather let the spec be wrong and proceed pragmatically
[19:57] <ashb> yeah
[19:58] <ashb> i aint making 1) my modules be camelCase or 2) mour require restirct at all
[19:58] <ashb> spec by defacto process ftw right?
[19:58] <kriskowal> well, the modules spec is a sensitive point
[19:58] <ashb> yeah
[19:58] <kriskowal> it was a long hard argument to get it where it is
[19:59] <kriskowal> and it takes a certain frame of mind when reading it. it's not about restricting implementations of require so much as it's about restricting what is permissible in portable module code
[20:00] <ashb> 26
[20:00] <kriskowal> obviously, every implementation goes beyond the spec, but the spec just guarantees that certain things will work in all implementations, which outlines what it takes to make interoperable code.
[20:00] <ashb> doh
[20:00] <ashb> echo 'Args to postflight are: $*'
[20:00] <ashb> i didn't want those quotes there
[20:01] <ashb> kriskowal: ming being my 10.6 gunineapig in about an 1.5
[20:01] <kriskowal> yeah, double-quotes for interpolation
[20:01] <ashb> yeah :)
[20:02] <ashb> kriskowal: i'm on a train right now - but i will build a new dist that should either work or more likely give better debugging
[20:02] <kriskowal> thanks
[20:02] <ashb> hannesw__: if you pull juice it should fix those 2 problems
[20:03] <ashb> (i forced pushed. that was bad of me)
[20:04] <hannesw__> ashb: i still get this: TypeError: d_fh.writeBinary is not a function' at /home/hannes/git/juice/lib/juice/installer.js:154
[20:04] <ashb> hannesw__: which revision?
[20:04] <ashb> should be on 217499f5f865
[20:04] <hannesw__> 4f7aa6d709a813
[20:04] <ashb> and now & time to walk home from station
[20:05] <ashb> be back online in like 20-30mins
[20:05] <ashb> me-- # dont do force pushes on published branches
[20:05] <ashb> dork
[20:06] <hannesw__> ok, working with fresh clone
[20:06] <ashb> http://github.com/ashb/Zest
[20:06] <ashb> will need premake4
[20:06] <ashb> and paths might need tweaking
[20:06] <ashb> once its built
[20:06] <ashb> flusspferd install.js again
[20:06] <ashb> same for http://github.com/ashb/template
[20:06] <ashb> &
[20:07] <hannesw__> ok, i'll try
[20:24] <ashb> and home
[20:27] <prog> jseval 1!2
[20:28] <ashb> kriskowal: please try http://juicejs.org/downloads/Juice-0.1_1.dmg
[20:29] <ashb> hannesw__: working or not?
[20:29] <hannesw__> ashb: yeah, i got it working!
[20:29] <ashb> (i know i need to tidy up hte dep process a whole load)
[20:29] <ashb> hannesw__: sweet!
[20:30] <hannesw__> found out what premake4 is and installed template :)
[20:30] <ashb> premake is Yet Another Makefile Maker
[20:30] <ashb> i just prefer it over cmake, and it does the trick
[20:30] <ashb> i should probably create homebrew and macports recipies
[20:30] <ashb> and build .debs
[20:33] <hannesw__> poking around now... interesting stuff!
[20:34] <ashb> as always - any comments/criticisms/problems please or evilstreak know
[20:35] <ashb> and once i've got a few more people to test it, I shall publicise it even wider
[20:37] <hannesw__> console script doesn't work for me
[20:37] <ashb> yeah, env command doesn't work on ubunutu. i found that
[20:37] <ashb> flusspferd -i script/console
[20:37] <hannesw__> i hate that...
[20:37] <ashb> not sure a more automated fix
[20:38] <MisterN> ashb: huh? normally env does work on ubuntu
[20:38] <Dantman|sick> eh, env doesn't work on ubuntu? since when?
[20:38] <hannesw__> (ubuntu env i mean)
[20:38] <ashb> /usr/bin/env flusspferd --interactive doesn't
[20:38] <hannesw__> it doesn't take commands with options
[20:39] <Dantman|sick> man env says it does
[20:39] <MisterN> /usr/bin/env - flusspferd --interactive
[20:39] <MisterN> should work
[20:39] <MisterN> hmm no.
[20:39] <MisterN> does not
[20:40] <MisterN> ashb: but /usr/bin/env -- flusspferd --interactive should work
[20:40] <MisterN> but actually /usr/bin/env flusspferd --interactive works for me too
[20:40] <ashb> form in a script too?
[20:41] <Dantman|sick> Heh... doesn't work? Try a "-"... Doesn't work? Try another "-"... Doesn't work? ... *snicker*
[20:41] <MisterN> Dantman|sick: the manpage mentions - :)
[20:41] <MisterN> and -- is the standard way of stopping option parsing
[20:41] <ashb> MisterN: so it behaves differently in a script to on the cmd line
[20:43] <ashb> i think its a bit shocking that the batch script is a better env driver then env is
[20:46] <ashb> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/237208
[20:46] <ashb> i'm sorry what?
[20:51] <MisterN> ashb: hmm it must be possible to write a shebang hack for this
[20:51] <ashb> thats what i'm wondering
[20:51] <MisterN> ashb: using absolute paths is not an option i guess?
[20:51] <ashb> it is
[20:52] <ashb> but it breaks the relocatability
[20:52] <ashb> w.t.f.
[20:53] <ashb> env just tkaes everything after it in a shebang line as the cmd name
[20:53] <ashb> #!/usr/bin/env flusspferd # -i
[20:53] <ashb> tries to run 'flusspferd # -i'
[20:53] <MisterN> ashb: it's not env.
[20:53] <MisterN> ashb: it's the shebang itself
[20:54] <MisterN> #!/foo bar zyxl calls /foo "bar zyxl"
[20:54] <MisterN> generally.
[20:54] <MisterN> that's the unix standard, it seems
[20:54] <ashb> so is 'env flusspferd -i' really any different to just 'flusspferd -i'
[20:55] <MisterN> ashb: again. it splits ONLY at the first space after the first command
[20:55] <ashb> true
[20:55] <MisterN> ashb: the rest of the line is assumed to be a single argument
[20:56] <ashb> that seems ... fucking stupid
[20:56] <MisterN> it calls something like execl("/usr/bin/env", "flusspferd -i")
[20:56] <ashb> cos "quoting spaces" is too much work?
[20:56] <MisterN> ashb: well, that's an ancient unix standard
[20:56] <MisterN> ashb: keep in mind it doesn't actually invoke a shell
[20:57] <ashb> right so how should we work around this?
[20:57] <MisterN> ashb: some kind of hack
[20:58] <ashb> yeah :)
[20:58] <MisterN> ashb: you could write a flusspferd-i script, which does nothing but call flusspferd -i
[20:58] <MisterN> #!/bin/sh
[20:58] <MisterN> flusspferd -i "$@"
[20:59] <ashb> ah more generic way might be nicer
[20:59] <MisterN> ashb: and for flusspferd 0.9, we make it possible to enable the interactive shell from javascript.
[20:59] <ashb> i.e. flusspferd detects if its invoked someway via the env line and splits it/handles it properly
[21:00] <ashb> but enabling repl from JS would be cooler!
[21:01] <MisterN> ashb: flusspferd cannot detect it, because it is never invoked
[21:01] <MisterN> env tries to invoke "flusspferd -i"
[21:01] <ashb> #!flusspferd -i -Mfoo wouldn't work?
[21:01] <hannesw__> would also be nice if flusspferd -i scripts/server worked
[21:01] <ashb> oh no cos shebang never searches path does it
[21:01] <ashb> hannesw__: it doesn't?
[21:01] <hannesw__> not for me - don't get into the shell
[21:02] <ashb> hannesw__: script/console
[21:02] <ashb> :)
[21:02] <MisterN> hannesw__: the server BLOCKS
[21:02] <MisterN> hannesw__: so it would get into the shell if the server would ever stop running ;)
[21:03] <ashb> MisterN: which of readline/editline is it that we should use?
[21:03] <hannesw__> i see. I do that in helma all the time
[21:03] <MisterN> ashb: editline is safer i think
[21:05] <ashb> cos readlien is GPL?
[21:05] <MisterN> ya
[21:05] <ashb> we should do what wes did and built our own read/editline in ncurses
[21:06] <MisterN> sure.
[21:06] <voodootikigod> tlrobinson: ohai
[21:11] <kriskowal> hi voodootikigod. looking forward to meeting you
[21:11] <voodootikigod> kriskowal: what did i do this time
[21:12] <voodootikigod> kriskowal: oh you mean for jsconf
[21:12] <kriskowal> hahah, yeah
[21:12] <kriskowal> i'm not planning to drop by your house with handcuffs, in any case
[21:12] <voodootikigod> damn it
[21:13] <voodootikigod> :)
[21:13] <voodootikigod> unfortunately i have a bit of bad news with respect to that
[21:14] <kriskowal> no zeppelins?
[21:15] <voodootikigod> exactly
[21:15] <voodootikigod> my good friend is getting married that weekend
[21:15] <voodootikigod> so i wont be there
[21:15] <voodootikigod> but
[21:15] <voodootikigod> i might be able to steal a mig or buy one off ebay
[21:16] <kriskowal> yeah, but then there's the sovereign airspace problem
[21:16] <voodootikigod> bah
[21:16] <voodootikigod> that you can get around
[21:16] <ashb> kriskowal: ah - try installing into a non-standard location
[21:17] <kriskowal> ashb k
[21:17] <voodootikigod> kriskowal: i will need a favor from you though
[21:17] <ashb> kriskowal: and thanks again for helping my debug this
[21:17] <voodootikigod> you must carry my mantle and drink in my stead
[21:17] <ashb> *me
[21:17] <kriskowal> lulz
[21:17] <voodootikigod> (mind you I don't even know what a mantle is)
[21:17] <voodootikigod> (think its a fireplace)
[21:17] <kriskowal> it has two meanings
[21:18] <voodootikigod> I definitely meant fireplace
[21:18] <kriskowal> it's a kind of long coat, and a shelf above a fireplace
[21:18] <kriskowal> but, i can carry a fireplace around for you.
[21:18] <ashb> irakli's idea is interesting
[21:18] <ashb> http://gist.github.com/219927
[21:18] <kriskowal> ashb yeah
[21:19] <ashb> not quite sure i like how invasive it is, but hrmmm
[21:19] <kriskowal> i had a beer once.
[21:19] <voodootikigod> ?!?!
[21:19] <voodootikigod> once
[21:19] <kriskowal> in münchen
[21:20] <voodootikigod> ah münchen
[21:20] <kriskowal> i also had a full cup of bacardi 151 once.
[21:20] <voodootikigod> madchens dancing in the autumn air, consuming fresh oktoberfest brews
[21:20] <kriskowal> it had no effect :/
[21:20] <ashb> tho i can't work out how .doc() actually puls out the docs
[21:20] <voodootikigod> be careful at jsconf - whcih properly should be redubbed jsbeer
[21:21] <kriskowal> ashb i think it uses a regex scanner
[21:21] <voodootikigod> or jsparty
[21:21] <ashb> kriskowal: ah
[21:21] <ashb> oh (this.toSource || this.toString).call(this). there
[21:21] <kriskowal> yeah, that'd do the trick.
[21:21] <ashb> kriskowal: i take it the 'yeah' was to the idea, not that it worked by installing to a non-std dir?
[21:22] <kriskowal> wrt to gozala's idea
[21:27] <kriskowal> ashb: the install in ~/local attempt failed as well.
[21:37] <ashb> worth a shot
[21:39] <ashb> kriskowal: anything different in the install log
[21:39] <ashb> or are hte args still / /
[21:41] <kriskowal> the args to postflight were /Volumes/Juice 0.1/Juice.mpkg /Users/kris/local /
[21:41] <ashb> hm- that should have worked in that case then!
[21:42] <ashb> kriskowal: a 'prefix is ' line?
[21:43] <kriskowal> it's /Users/kris/local, the custom install location
[21:43] <ashb> does it say why it errored out this time?
[21:43] <ashb> could not canonicalize?
[22:01] <JohnnyL> is javascript stackless?
[22:01] <ashb> yes to all purposes
[22:02] <ryah> stackless? like execution stack?
[22:04] <kriskowal> ashb syntax error postflight line 137
[22:04] <ashb> oh
[22:04] <ashb> kriskowal: what shell are you using?
[22:05] <kriskowal> bash
[22:05] <ashb> huh.
[22:06] <ashb> http://github.com/ashb/juice/blob/master/packages/postflight#L137
[22:06] <ashb> except i've added a line locally, so its infact the line above
[22:08] <JohnnyL> ryah the 'c' stack
[22:08] <ashb> JohnnyL: why?
[22:11] <JohnnyL> ashb because it's funny to see a stackless language that doesn't support multiple threads.
[22:11] <ashb> so it does have a callstack, you just can't maniuplate it
[22:13] <ashb> kriskowal: okay, that confuses me somewhat
[22:14] <JohnnyL> ashb oh? who says <enters code in>
[22:14] <ashb> JohnnyL: not beyond fncalls,returns etc
[22:16] <JohnnyL> ashb can it be made to be stackless?
[22:16] <ryah> JohnnyL: it certainly has a stack
[22:27] <kriskowal> ryah "stackless" generally means that what would conventionally be stored on the system runtime stack is actually on the heap so it's easier for coroutines and the like to share stack frames
[22:28] <kriskowal> so it's not "stackless" so much as its stack is not necessarily contiguous in memory
[22:35] <JohnnyL> well what is it?
[22:35] <JohnnyL> hahaha
[22:36] <ashb> it probably depends on the implementation
[22:36] <ashb> i dont think the spec mandates it to have a stack
[22:36] <ashb> but i coiuld be wrong
[22:36] <ashb> it certainyl has a call stack that is unwound during excpetions
[22:39] <ashb> wtf does boost think my postflight script is binary
[22:55] <JohnnyL> yeah
[22:55] <JohnnyL> javascript is definitely 'stackful'. chapter 10 of the specification describes it rather generally.
[22:56] <JohnnyL> no wonder there isn't any multithreaded implementations.
[23:09] <ashb> #echo "Read the port(1)
[23:09] <ashb> how the hell is that a syntax error - its in a freaking comment!
[23:12] <ashb> how the hell is that a syntax error - its in a freaking comment!
[23:12] <ashb> w/c
[23:13] <ashb> oh "..."# earlier wasn't treated as a comment
[23:25] <MisterN> ashb: you need spaces around the #
[23:25] <ashb> yeah
[23:46] <ashb> kriskowal_: want to try one last version?
[23:46] <kriskowal_> sure
[23:46] <ashb> just uploading
[23:47] <ashb> http://juicejs.org/downloads/Juice-0.1_2.dmg
[23:49] <ashb> it at least works for me on 10.5.8
[23:58] <ashb> kriskowal: hmmm - line 137 sohuld now be 'elif [ -f ${HOME}/.bash_login ]; then'
[23:58] <ashb> you sure oy uran the right version?
[23:58] <kriskowal> there's some chance that there is something funny going on with the download/automount

 

 

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